Interviews: Filmmakers Lonnie Edwards, Robert Carnilius at the 2015 Chicago Black Harvest Film Festival

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‘How to Catch a Criminal’ by Director Robert Carnilius
Photo credit: Black Harvest Film Festival

Robert Carnilius of “How to Catch a Criminal”

HollywoodChicago.com: In this film, and in your previous film ‘Jaspa’ Jenkins,’ you explored African American issues through the film styles of the past. What fascinates you about the cinema of another era, and how it blends with your social consciousness?

Robert Carnilius: If you look at the cinema of the past, and the way they portrayed black people – from the use of blackface and the exclusion of black people from early film – not only do I like the early style aesthetically, but it also points out that not much has changed, both in the way black people are treated in the media and by law enforcement..

HollywoodChicago.com: One of your quick cuts in the film involves a police officer measuring low hanging pants on an African American man. Why do particular styles in black culture cause fear and unfair behavior in society, especially in law enforcement? What do you think are the roots of those fears?

Carnilius: It’s an unresolved issue, the fear of blackness and otherness across any minority group, with roots in the fear of rape against white women when the slaves were freed in this country. The film talks about this fear, how it stems from slavery and years of oppression, and remains justified in law enforcement. It’s not just the police officers that are doing it, also it’s you and I, when we cross the street when we see a black person with a hoodie on. What does that say about society, and what law enforcement chooses to ‘protect’?

We see it today in the micro-oppressions that have come to light recently. It’s not isolated incidences anymore, social media and even the major press has made us more aware of it. We also a connection between racial profiling and police brutality, and actual laws on how to wear your pants. Who is that protecting?

HollywoodChicago.com: At what point in your life did you have that moment in which you first felt you were judged by the color of your skin, and how did that change you as a human being?

Carnilius: It’s weird, but I didn’t really start to internalize things until I got to high school and wanted to date, knowing I was also gay. But I can go back to my childhood, when I remembered something internalized. I was lighter skinned, and my grandmother was dark skin, and she touched me and I looked at my hand, ‘Mamma, why did you put this black stuff on me.’ I maybe must have been in first grade, but even then I perceived black as negative.

HollywoodChicago.com: How does art like ‘How to Catch a Criminal’ become the greatest weapon against perceptions and realities in law enforcement interaction with African American men?

Robert Carnilius of ‘How to Catch a Criminal’ Photo credit: Patrick McDonald for HollywoodChicago.com

Carnilius: The great thing about art is that you can be playful with it. Although this was related to my experience in being arrested, I wanted it to be fun and play with issue. I’ve done drama in the past, and I want a bold response for this as if it was drama. It will cause discomfort, but also it’s more of a satire with a heavy message. It’s very layered and nuanced, but I like being satirical about a real issue. Why are we profiling people, not just law enforcement, but you and I? In this format I think it’s easier to take in.

HollywoodChicago.com: Do you think its almost inevitable that an African American man will have a direct confrontation with law enforcement, that will be different than anything experienced by a white individual in the same circumstances?

Carnilius: I do think that. As a background, I worked in police dispatching as an undergrad, my father is involved in law enforcement and my parents were in the military. I’ve always respected the law, and had always believed if you respect the authority, and hadn’t done anything wrong, you’d be fine. But little did I know I’d be arrested by two plainclothes police officers, and it really woke me up. Even with all the ‘privileges’ I had – I am a light skinned middle class black man with a college education – I was blinded by fact that I could be perceived as a threat. That shouldn’t be the case.

HollywoodChicago.com: What did your arrest experience change you?

Carnilius: The incident shook me to the core and changed my worldview, because no longer was I an adjusted and educated black man walking through society, but I was just a ‘black man.’ This was a whole new interpretation for how others perceived me. When I was handcuffed, taken into an unmarked police car, and thrown in a jail cell, I thought I was going to die. It was terrifying – in the sense they could do anything they wanted and no one would know.

HollywoodChicago.com: The issues raised in circumstances like Ferguson and Baltimore continue to simmer below the surface of race relations in America. What, if anything, do you believe that the law enforcement side and the persons of color side have learned from instances such as these?

Carnilius: We’re starting to learn about accountability – that no one is above the law, and law enforcement is about ‘protect and serve.’ We as a society, both black and white, have to learn from the past. The more we educate ourselves, talk about and explore these issues – as to why black people are targeted or seem threatening – the more things can change. We need accountability, especially in regard to shooting someone and then getting away with it. I’m hoping that all sides are realizing that, and in the future law enforcement will be held accountable for their actions.

HollywoodChicago.com: Is there anything you want to talk about regarding your film, in context with the Black Harvest Festival?

Carnilius: I just want to say, especially since the Black Harvest Film Festival focuses on voices of color – and since my film is in the festival, as well as ‘A Ferguson Story’ by Lonnie Edwards – you can really sense how we as a people are feeling by going to this festival. It’s what we’re dealing with, and its a shared experience that can be very powerful. So go to this film festival.

Click here for previous interviews with Lonnie Edwards and Robert Carnilius on HollywoodChicago.com.

By PATRICK McDONALD Writer, Editorial Coordinator HollywoodChicago.com pat@hollywoodchicago.com